Only one DAT has Enhanced Roms?

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Tauwasser
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Re: Only one DAT has Enhanced Roms?

Post by Tauwasser » 04 Mar 2017 16:08

Well, they won't work without proper mapper emulation that undoes the scrambling. Currently, only MAME emulates those mappers.

Densetsu
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Re: Only one DAT has Enhanced Roms?

Post by Densetsu » 09 Mar 2017 18:00

@Tauwasser

How did those games work on the real hardware then? Was there a special chip on the PCB?


@TheShadowRunner / all

Okay, done with Group II.

Not compatible with GB Classic:
- DynaMike (Europe) (Proto)
- Game Boy Color (USA) (Promo)

Crashed right away: (because of technical stuff like mappers I guess?)
- Karate Joe (Europe) (Unl)

By the way: Great tip speeding up the emu! ;)

I'll do also Group III but just a question for confirmation before:
Is it always sufficient to start a game and wait for an error message regarding GB-compatibility or is it possible that you see the title screen, have to push a button and just afterwards get an alert that the game is GBC-compatible only?

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Tauwasser
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Re: Only one DAT has Enhanced Roms?

Post by Tauwasser » 09 Mar 2017 23:25

Densetsu wrote:How did those games work on the real hardware then? Was there a special chip on the PCB?
Yes, that would be what the mapper is. Basically, the makers of those games, Sachen, scrambled part of the header area where the logo and boot code reside, because at the time Nintendo still banked on the copyright infringement angle when protecting their intellectual property. This also served Sachen well, because their games cannot be copied as easily, since they use the selective scrambling as a copy protection while playing and will crash in interesting ways if not fully implemented or emulated.
Densetsu wrote:Is it always sufficient to start a game and wait for an error message regarding GB-compatibility or is it possible that you see the title screen, have to push a button and just afterwards get an alert that the game is GBC-compatible only?
Not according to Nintendo guidelines.

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TheShadowRunner
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Re: Only one DAT has Enhanced Roms?

Post by TheShadowRunner » 10 Mar 2017 12:02

@Tauwasser: Then what do you recommend should be done for this special case (unlicensed Sachen games), apply the "GB Compatible" tag or not?

@Densetsu: Nice tackling Group II.
I can probably do one more as well (just not right now) ;)
Is it always sufficient to start a game and wait for an error message regarding GB-compatibility or is it possible that you see the title screen, have to push a button and just afterwards get an alert that the game is GBC-compatible only?
No, don't worry, in case of a GBC-only game, it's the first screen that comes up.

Densetsu
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Re: Only one DAT has Enhanced Roms?

Post by Densetsu » 13 Mar 2017 16:45

@Tauwasser

Was/Is it illegal producing games/software for a Nintendo console without being licensed by Nintendo? Or were "Sachen" just not allowed to use the Nintendo logo what they apparently did?

BTW: Did/Do you work at Nintendo or do you know someone there? You were able to provide interesting information more than once. ;)


@TheShadowRunner / all

Here are the results of checking Group III...

Not compatible with Classic GB:
- Klax (USA, Europe)
- Logical (USA)
- Logical (Europe)
- Mask of Zorro, The (USA)

I'll do Group IV later on today or tomorrow I think.

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Re: Only one DAT has Enhanced Roms?

Post by KingMike » 13 Mar 2017 17:23

Nintendo's "protection" on the GB was about the same idea as TMSS on the Genesis:
Nintendo forced (though the boot ROM) a bit-perfect copy of their logo to be present on the cart ROM, so that if a third-party made an unlicensed game, Nintendo could try to sue them for trademark-infringement.
(although I thought the Sega case ruled it can't be enforced if the console maker forced them to include the trademark infringement as a means of booting the console. With Sega only winning their case because they demonstrated alternate ways to pass the TMSS.)

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Re: Only one DAT has Enhanced Roms?

Post by Densetsu » 14 Mar 2017 18:24

Thanks, KingMike, never heard of that before. ;)

Sounds like kind of a smart idea using the logo as a copy protection but yeah, legally questionable at the same time.


Here are the results of testing Group IV:

Not compatible with GB Classic:
- NHL Blades of Steel (USA)

Only got white screens:
- Resident Evil (Unknown) (Proto) (early)
- Resident Evil (Unknown) (Proto)

Will do Group V as well today or tomorrow.

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Re: Only one DAT has Enhanced Roms?

Post by Densetsu » 16 Mar 2017 20:14

Okay, here are my results after testing Group V:

Not compatible with GB Classic:
- Smurfs Nightmare, The (Europe) (En,Fr,De,Es)
- Smurfs Nightmare, The (USA)
- Spy vs. Spy (USA)
- Top Gear Pocket (Japan) (En) (Rumble Version)
- Top Gear Pocket (USA) (Rumble Version)
- Top Gear Rally (Europe) (Rumble Version)
- V-Rally - Championship Edition (Europe) (En,Fr,De,Es)

"Flashing letter salad screen":
- Tyrannosaurus Tex (USA) (Proto)

VBA crashing (unknown cartridge type [1-3] / unsupported rom size [4]):
- Space Invasion & Karate Joe (Europe) (Unl) //[1]
- Space Invasion & Painter (Europe) (Unl) //[2]
- Space Invasion (Europe) (Unl) //[3]
- Street Hero (Taiwan) (En) (1B-004, EB-004, Sachen) (Unl) //[4]

Only white screen:
- Tezhong Budui 2 - Jidi (China) (Li Cheng) (Unl)

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Re: Only one DAT has Enhanced Roms?

Post by TheShadowRunner » 25 Mar 2017 05:31

Alright I compiled all the infos in a new text file (thanks for finishing up Densetsu):
http://textuploader.com/dtnis
All these roms in the GBC DAT are now confirmed working on GB and therefore should bear the [GB Compatible] tag.

The last question remaining pertains to the (Unl / Sachen) & (Proto) roms that crash on load (on real hardware as well as emu). Since there's doubt as to whether they're supposed to be 'GB Compatible', I think their entry shouldn't be altered, at least for now.

So is it (finally) time to push those findings into the DAT? 8-)

Densetsu
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Re: Only one DAT has Enhanced Roms?

Post by Densetsu » 26 Mar 2017 00:56

Thanks, TheShadowRunner!

I think we should ask xuom2 how the tags can be added by a script because it would be rather tedious to add hundreds of tags manually. ;)

Also I suggest compiling a list with those "pending" games, hope we will be able to take care of them in the future...

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xuom2
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Re: Only one DAT has Enhanced Roms?

Post by xuom2 » 26 Mar 2017 07:59

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=2876

i need a table with 2 fields: a key (number, crc, etc) to identify the item in db, the data of the field(s) to add/edit

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Re: Only one DAT has Enhanced Roms?

Post by TheShadowRunner » 26 Mar 2017 21:12

xuom2 wrote:viewtopic.php?f=11&t=2876

i need a table with 2 fields: a key (number, crc, etc) to identify the item in db, the data of the field(s) to add/edit
Hmm, something like this?

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xuom2
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Re: Only one DAT has Enhanced Roms?

Post by xuom2 » 27 Mar 2017 06:32

perfect! will upload later!

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xuom2
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Re: Only one DAT has Enhanced Roms?

Post by xuom2 » 27 Mar 2017 08:57

uploaded 8-)

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TheShadowRunner
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Re: Only one DAT has Enhanced Roms?

Post by TheShadowRunner » 27 Mar 2017 09:40

Thank you xuom2!
Finally it is done :D

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