It is currently 20 Nov 2017 16:38

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 71 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: 01 Dec 2016 06:22 
Offline

Joined: 16 Jul 2010 06:27
Posts: 207
So I'm totally beating a dead horse past the point of death here, but I still feel it needs to be discussed.

I still don't agree with the 3DS (DLC) DAT. As of earlier this year the flood gates became wide open for downloading directly from Nintendo servers via various tools/apps. The format they are is .cia, not .3ds. So in my mind their native format is .cia, which is what the DAT should reflect.

But the million dollar question is what is considered "good". I've been doing some very unscientific testing to see if I can make heads or tails of it. I recently discovered ctrtool and I was pulling the info from .cia files made from 3DSeSTUFF, CIAngel & CDN-FX using my own ticket and the encTitleKeys file from 3DS Title Key site.

From what I can tell looking at the ctrtool results there are only three noticeable differences and they only come from purchased vs a CDN download tool.
1. Signature. This value is unique in the case of purchased games. I purchased the same game on two different 3DS' and the values were different on each. With a CDN tool the value is generic.
2. Ticket ID. When the title is purchased it shows a unique (console specific) value, when it's downloaded from a CDN tool it has all 0's.
3. Title ID. When a game is purchased the value is 0. When it is downloaded with a CDN tool it is always 4096.
(note I can provide the results from all of my ctrtool results if you want to see it)

The Hash (CRC/MD5/SHA1) will be different in a purchased game vs one that is downloaded with a CDN tool. Aside from that everything else is the same.

From this I can only come to the conclusion that with the exception if the game is purchased and downloaded using the personal ticket, it makes no difference which tool the cia is downloaded from, however, for the sake of accuracy the .cia should be downloaded from multiple apps and (hash) checked before being submitted to a DAT. I'm sure there are other things to consider but I am unsure of what that would be.

I don't know if there has been any internal conversation about this, but I think it's time to start thinking about it and discussing.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 01 Dec 2016 09:39 
Offline
Datter

Joined: 02 Nov 2014 08:37
Posts: 139
I agree that the 3DS DLC dat should be CIA and not .3ds.

The fields in the ticket which should be replaced with 00 (like with Wii WADs, used in the Wii DLC dat) are
  • Signature
  • ConsoleID
  • eShop Account ID

I am not entirely sure about the TitleID field, but if it is consistently the same byte in a purchased ticket then it should be the same in the one we use.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 01 Dec 2016 19:56 
Offline

Joined: 16 Jul 2010 06:27
Posts: 207
I'm hoping people with more knowledge will chime into this so we can get some movement on it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 01 Dec 2016 20:49 
Offline

Joined: 01 Oct 2016 18:33
Posts: 69
einstein95 wrote:
I agree that the 3DS DLC dat should be CIA and not .3ds.

The fields in the ticket which should be replaced with 00 (like with Wii WADs, used in the Wii DLC dat) are
  • Signature
  • ConsoleID
  • eShop Account ID

I am not entirely sure about the TitleID field, but if it is consistently the same byte in a purchased ticket then it should be the same in the one we use.

Considering as far as I know there's no way to actually use them as .3ds it's better to use them as .cia anyways. I understand that the 3DS dat is in .3ds because that came first (perhaps another in .cia may be for the best, but we won't truly know until the time comes, however I will say that flash carts are temporary but cfw is all on the system, and if that's how eshop games are constructed I think it's more accurate, but at the same time I see why they're concerned with the cart dump formats) but for DLC .cia is the only logical way to go. These criteria seem fair enough, in that circumstance any cia downloaded from eshop with the titlekey should work out for the dat. I think that's about as good as it can be without having personal info that will make it more murky.


Last edited by hking0036 on 01 Dec 2016 20:52, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 01 Dec 2016 20:51 
Offline
High Council
User avatar

Joined: 22 May 2008 18:45
Posts: 1114
please remember that, if you want, we can keep both formats in database. and datfile user can choose.
like DS encrypted/decrypted (and, in near future, N64 in n64/z64), we can have 3ds+cia.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 01 Dec 2016 20:54 
Offline

Joined: 01 Oct 2016 18:33
Posts: 69
xuom2 wrote:
please remember that, if you want, we can keep both formats in database. and datfile user can choose.
like DS encrypted/decrypted (and, in near future, N64 in n64/z64), we can have 3ds+cia.


We should start that, then! Any .cia downloaded and built with an encrypted title key should be identical to any other eshop dump with all the console-specific info stripped. The only issue is that newer games in the library (roughly september of last year) all have an extra layer of crypto on that makes it a little more challenging. Should so-called 'cryptofixed' roms that have this fixed be considered or just raw dumps without it included?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 01 Dec 2016 23:16 
Offline

Joined: 16 Jul 2010 06:27
Posts: 207
xuom2 wrote:
please remember that, if you want, we can keep both formats in database. and datfile user can choose.
like DS encrypted/decrypted (and, in near future, N64 in n64/z64), we can have 3ds+cia.


That's interesting idea, but personally I fell like .3ds should stick to retail dumps and .cia should be for eShop (games, DLC, updates, etc.)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 02 Dec 2016 09:09 
Offline
Datter

Joined: 14 May 2010 22:14
Posts: 401
hking0036 wrote:
xuom2 wrote:
please remember that, if you want, we can keep both formats in database. and datfile user can choose.
like DS encrypted/decrypted (and, in near future, N64 in n64/z64), we can have 3ds+cia.


We should start that, then! Any .cia downloaded and built with an encrypted title key should be identical to any other eshop dump with all the console-specific info stripped. The only issue is that newer games in the library (roughly september of last year) all have an extra layer of crypto on that makes it a little more challenging. Should so-called 'cryptofixed' roms that have this fixed be considered or just raw dumps without it included?



Cryptofixed is only need for playing the games , and here we want to game clean.
All crytofixed games that are in databse are marked as bad.

Then another question :

There are from some games rev , anbody already find out how to do al those ????


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 02 Dec 2016 12:18 
Offline

Joined: 01 Oct 2016 18:33
Posts: 69
jimmsu wrote:
hking0036 wrote:
xuom2 wrote:
please remember that, if you want, we can keep both formats in database. and datfile user can choose.
like DS encrypted/decrypted (and, in near future, N64 in n64/z64), we can have 3ds+cia.


We should start that, then! Any .cia downloaded and built with an encrypted title key should be identical to any other eshop dump with all the console-specific info stripped. The only issue is that newer games in the library (roughly september of last year) all have an extra layer of crypto on that makes it a little more challenging. Should so-called 'cryptofixed' roms that have this fixed be considered or just raw dumps without it included?



Cryptofixed is only need for playing the games , and here we want to game clean.
All crytofixed games that are in databse are marked as bad.

Then another question :

There are from some games rev , anbody already find out how to do al those ????

There should only be one version of each game on each regions shop which should be helpful, but how to tell which revision it is compared to a cart is an interesting question. You can convert .cia > .3ds with Decrypt9 but I don't know if it will produce the same hash as a dumped cart. If that checks out though, then it's a simple matter of comparing to dumped .3ds files. I suspect the seed issue will come into play here as well though, because carts have no need for it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 02 Dec 2016 14:40 
Offline
Datter

Joined: 14 May 2010 22:14
Posts: 401
I am not talking about cardridge games that are also on the eshop.

You can see the version of a cia file at offsett 2F9C.

There are eshop only games that have different versions.
like these :

z287 - NES Open Tournament Golf (USA) (NES) (Virtual Console).zip
z288 - NES Open Tournament Golf (USA) (Rev 2) (NES) (Virtual Console).zip

With now only using the enrypted key you only get the last version.

How do we get the older versions from eshop games to download ??

And cryptofixing games is only needed for playing games.
And thought we are putting in here only clean dumps , not altered ones for playing.

There is a seed file that has about 900 seeds in it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 02 Dec 2016 15:41 
Offline
Datter

Joined: 09 Oct 2015 11:29
Posts: 187
FBI seems to let you install old versions from CDN using tickets...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 02 Dec 2016 19:15 
Offline

Joined: 16 Jul 2010 06:27
Posts: 207
eShop revisions is the biggest issue from what I can tell.

For game updates, let's just say Hyrule Warriors for example, every time a new update came out it would technically supersede the previous version.
EX: v1.4.0 comes out in March, then v1.5.0 comes out in May, if you go to download something via CDN post v.1.5.0 release you would only get that version. So unless some one has been hoarding each revision (.cia), some would be lost.
DLC Updates would be the same problem.

Personally I only care about the latest/last revision of an update or DLC, but I realize there is a community that what's to "catch'em all" and of course I want to make sure they are happy as well.

From what I can tell eShop games are hit and miss. It seems like sometimes they will apply the updates to the actual game (as jimmsu pointed out) itself but not always; the update still needs to be applied after downloading. I need to double check but I think if you download Smash Bros it comes with like 1.1.4 prepackaged.

And as Datter pointed out, cryptofixing and seeds are only need for playback; they are not a part of the "natural state" of the file. Consoles and eventually emulators can take care of that part.

No-Intro team, do you have an existing rules/best practices/guidelines on what qualifies a good dump for cart based games (ideally Nintendo-centric stuff)? Perhaps we lay that out as a template and start making some adjustments to fit this new area.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Dec 2016 21:11 
Offline
Datter

Joined: 14 May 2010 22:14
Posts: 401
Wich tools to use for the best result ?.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 04 Dec 2016 09:45 
Offline
Datter

Joined: 02 Nov 2014 08:37
Posts: 139
The easiest way of getting older revisions of eShop games works the same way as Wii WADs. At teh end of the tmd url, add .[revision] and it will download the TMD of that revision. This is the same way that FBI does things.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 05 Dec 2016 08:27 
Offline

Joined: 16 Jul 2010 06:27
Posts: 207
jimmsu wrote:
Wich tools to use for the best result ?.


That is the $1,000,000 question!! I have only experimented with 3DSeSTUFF (FunKeyCIA wrapper/GUI), CDN-FX (FunkyCIA2 wrapper/GUI) & CIAngel (it's own thing). As best as I can tell there is no difference between any of them (with the one exception you are NOT using a personal ticket).

CDN-FX is about to get a nice update and it has been what I've been using thus far, but again, that is the starting point/question. Which tool/app to use to get the best results in order to start the DAT.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 71 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group