Extracted roms in dats?

General No-Intro related discussions.
Post Reply
root
Site Admin
Posts: 675
Joined: 19 May 2008 09:26

Extracted roms in dats?

Post by root » 21 Jan 2005 12:42

Rif: 224 Extracted roms in dats? \ bigfred on 21th January 2005, 12:42 wrote:

Extracted roms in dats? / bigfred on 21-Jan-2005 12:42 wrote:

I would like to hear your opinion: Do you think we should keep roms in the dats that were extracted from game-collections for modern console-systems? For example the Zelda-games in the N64-dat dumped from the GC-collection, some roms in the NES-dat or the phantasy-star-rom in the sms-dat. My problem is that these aren't games for the specific console. They are altered versions with edited graphics (2004 in title screen of NES-Zelda) and never produced for that console but just for a compilation that's played on a new system. The ripped GC-Zeldas in the N64-dat aren't N64-games and if it's called N64-dat why do we put these games in it? They are in fact part of a Gamecube-game. The Master-Quest dump is an exception as it was planned for the DD, but all others are something like fakes. Never existed a cart for the N64 with these games or was even planned.

===============================================

/ badzou on 22-Jan-2005 16:20 wrote:

my opinion is they need to be removed from the pure dat and moved on an extra dat, same goes for chrono psx (snes), arcade nss games (snes), & the megaplay game in genesis dat.
I like the idea of making an extra dat for every system and put all doubtfull stuff on it: betas, cross platform, arcade games, cracked roms for emulation...

===============================================

/ alcoatjez on 24-Jan-2005 11:03 wrote:

I'm with Badzou on this one, cause I am for clean dats, but I don't think we should entirely omit these games.

===============================================

/ bigmax on 24-Jan-2005 16:31 wrote:
I like the idea of making an extra dat for every system and put all doubtfull stuff on it: betas, cross platform, arcade games, cracked roms for emulation...
Isn't that what GoodXXX is for?

===============================================

/ badzou on 26-Jan-2005 08:01 wrote:
Isn't that what GoodXXX is for?
well you're sort of right

these beta games will be preserved in goodsets anyway, so no-intro doesn't really need them...
but what is exactly your opinion bigmax? please reply to bigfreg

===============================================

/ relax on 26-Jan-2005 22:59 wrote:

Well, the GBA mutiboot games from GC-discs are obviously for GBA. (And these are the ones we haven't included, lol.)
And I think the other ROMs like the NES and N64 ones are collectible too, even if they are not from carts. They are offical, and can be played on emulators or hardware. I would rather not use GoodXXX just to collect these. Maybe in some cases these ROMs contain bugfixes etc. not included elsewhere?
So I think we should include them, but of course it's up to the datter of that specific system.
And for GBA, since we're back to splitted dats, we should have a seperate multiboot dat.

===============================================

/ bigmax on 27-Jan-2005 21:20 wrote:

I think the dats should be kept as "clean" as possible. Meaning only shop available carts and prototypes of games that were never released. Regarding the arcade roms, IMO they shouldn't be included in any dat. We have MAME for arcade stuff...

===============================================

/ badzou on 29-Jan-2005 11:19 wrote:

I agree bigmax totally please no extracted games from isos, arcade, or third system no beta for games having a final release
I wish ngefreak would agree that

===============================================

/ NGEfreak on 29-Jan-2005 22:34 wrote:

No, I won't split the dats. It's absolutly unnecessary. If you don't want for example beta roms, then just don't get them!! They are all tagged with (Beta), so what's the problem?
If you are a mindless full set collector and don't want such roms... well, bad for you. I don't care.

===============================================

/ badzou on 27-Aug-2005 11:48 wrote:

*from "GC in NES .dat" started by eeemale"

extracted roms are fake and must be removed from the no-intro dats therefore besides they are worthless dupes of dupes... :s

there are two kind of extracted roms:
(1) extracted from arcade pcbs
(2) extracted from isos

(1) are already preserved in the MAME set, they are not meant for the original hardware (the arcade hardware is often a slightly modified version of the home system) so adding them to the home system dat will neither help preserve the game nor the capabilities of the original hardware...

(2) are digitalized dupes and easy to preserve, think it up there's no use of remaking a dupe of a dupe, this is nonesense...

I agree NGEFreak on the beta preservation, but the extracted roms must be removed

fake dumps that need to be removed from no-intro dats:

gamcube in nes
pc10 in nes
psx in snes
nss in snes
megaplay in smd (I think gigadeath has already trashed it)
gamecube in n64 (master quest might be kept seeing how it's different from the original)

that's all I can think of for now

===============================================

/ Gigadeath on 27-Aug-2005 13:19 wrote:

I'm lucky, I don't have to worry that much about this issue

Megaplay games have no place in the Megadrive dat, there's no way in hell to make them work on real hardware without modifying it (you would have to equip the console with coin slots, at the very least).

Megatech games could be included, but afaik they are identical to the plain dumps, so no gain in having them as separate entries.

MAME keeps good care of both the formats, no risk to lose them.

It's different for games ripped from CDs/DVDs, if they're different and can work on real hardware they're worth to be included, 'till the day we have proper dats for those disk based systems.

For example Goodgen includes a Sonic 2 (1.2) ripped from a Sonic Compilation cart, I deleted it because it's ripped directly from a Megadrive cart, and it's already playable through the Sonic Compilation dump. But if the rip came from a Saturn CD, I don't think I would have trashed it, but I would have kept it until proper Saturn dumps were possible.

===============================================

/ Lukeage on 27-Aug-2005 14:50 wrote:

I'll quickly add my 2cents.

Firstly, I don't think we should have seperate dats for everything, as nge says, everything is flagged and if you don't want them then don't collect them. If its ruining your leetness since clrmame doesn't flag your collection complete, write yourself a short script to removes those entries from the dat before you do a scan. Hell, if enough people want something like that i'll create a nice proggie for you which you can just drop your dats through and clean them up to your likings.

As for the actually roms for other system, a point was brought up that I didn't consider (the arcade ones that would require mods). I suppose with this in light it should probably either be we have all the roms from these extra systems, whether they run on the console hardware or not, or we just leave them all out. I suppose atleast if they are all in there those people who want them can still get them whereas those who don't can just ignore them.

===============================================

/ SolidSnake on 27-Aug-2005 15:11 wrote:

I agree to NGEfreak. I will never remove the GC rips/dumps, Betas and all the other stuff from my dats ! Sorry.

===============================================

/ Gigadeath on 28-Aug-2005 01:42 wrote:

It's not that difficult:

-betas and protos: in (of course)
-rips from undattable (yet) systems: in
-rips from dattable systems: out
-rips not working on the original hardware: out (MAME was made for a ****ing reason [sorry for the swearing])

===============================================

/ hokuto on 08-Sep-2005 12:25 wrote:

Imho, rips should be included only if these conditions are met:

1) They are 1:1 copy of the source, i.e. everytime I rip them from CD (or whatever else) I produce the same file

2) They are fully playable on real original hardware (for example: if i rip a NES game from a GameCube disc and i flash it into a cart, i can plug the cart in a NES console and play the game without bugs/glitches), no hacking for emu compatibility

3) They are not byte-to-byte dupes of another dump previously included in dat

4) Rips have a flag in filename

About beta and protos, I agree to Gigadeath, as long as a tag identifies them, so "custom set" can be easily achieved.

Post Reply