XML format nes roms

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root
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XML format nes roms

Post by root » 11 Apr 2008 09:18

Rif: 2092-1 XML format nes roms \ tetsuo55 on 11th April 2008, 10:18 wrote:

Big news!!

Nestopia 1.38 is out with full support for the new XML format for nes roms.

ROM sets and external database support using new XML format co-developed with Bootgod
The full changelog here: http://nestopia.sourceforge.net/

The only problem is how can we build these xml roms? no dat, no roms floating around illegaly on the net....

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Re: XML format nes roms \ Yakushi~Kabuto on 11th April 2008, 11:56 wrote:

I haven't checked the xml yet but No-Intro should definately support the format of BootGod's xml. Finally the dream came true! NES headers can die.

Many thanks to BootGod and Marty!

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Re: XML format nes roms \ CaH4e3 on 16th April 2008, 16:34 wrote:

BootGod's xml data base format have most funniest structure i've ever seen. :/

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Re: XML format nes roms \ agatonspik on 16th April 2008, 19:50 wrote:

What's a better structure then?

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Re: XML format nes roms \ CaH4e3 on 17th April 2008, 07:58 wrote:

There is a lot of possible structures, ones of them is good enough to collect total information about carts, but looks highly nested and redundant for emulators dta base.

Mostly nested elements are unneeded and too much complicated to parse...

"game->cartridge->board" elements good enough if we want represent exactly info about games, it's cart variations and it's periperals. But, is there any game that have much that one extra peripherals like zapper and keyboard on one time? Maybe power pad and power glove? Is there much important to know what cart it is when emulating? What game it is? Pin numbers and function is good info for data base, for emulator bits and bit masks are good enough. This is not a property of one phisical chip, this is a property of board logic and address space. One thing that can be used as nested multiple elements is rom chips. As well there is no info about protection schemes for the same mappers like 163, WRAM address space, VRAM+VROM specific mappers info, dip switches after all. And finally such complcated and complete xml scheme loosed most important things in nestopia itself, like CRCs for separate ROM chips, and mostly game names. As you can see, this base couldn't use any of "advanced" db features like combining by games, carts or separating by eprom chips, in such case nesting and separating by various elements looks strange and unneccessary.

(probably you canno't understand what i'm said here, i'm not so good in english. ;) )

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Re: XML format nes roms \ mikers on 23rd April 2008, 08:24 wrote:

it's important to note that the new format was designed with *preservation* in mind, instead of the iNES approach of "free games!"

ps: does anybody know if anybody is making an iNES->XML converter? I'm not sure how difficult it is, you'd probably need to rely on BootGod's database (or something) to fill in some gaps...

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Re: XML format nes roms \ CaH4e3 on 23rd April 2008, 13:31 wrote:

Preservation of what? Useless binary data ROM's? Or maybe PCB functions? I see, preservation of cart labels and "seal of quality" type. Nice, very nice.

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Re: XML format nes roms \ Arbee on 23rd April 2008, 22:50 wrote:

Preservation as in archival-quality dumps (hopefully including label, box, and manual scans plus cheat .ips patches and whatever else you want to stuff into the zip) that could be used to reconstruct the actual cartridges in 300 years when Captain Kirk decides he wants to play some Korean porno NES games.

If you are only interested in emulation as a means to play games, this format is not for you, please enjoy your ines sets and we won't bother you again ;-)

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Re: XML format nes roms \ BootGod on 23rd April 2008, 23:04 wrote:
As well there is no info about protection schemes for the same mappers like 163, WRAM address space, VRAM+VROM specific mappers info, dip switches after all.
The format is flexible enough to allow for things such as these to be added in the future.
And finally such complcated and complete xml scheme loosed most important things in nestopia itself, like CRCs for separate ROM chips, and mostly game names. As you can see, this base couldn't use any of "advanced" db features like combining by games, carts or separating by eprom chips, in such case nesting and separating by various elements looks strange and unneccessary.
I haven't even looked at the version of the DB included with Nestopia, but all this info is still available by generating an XML DB with my software. I'm currently working on a more in-depth hardware info system, that also includes (among many other things) the package type of the chips. Once I get this far-enough along, I'll jump into working on the regional linking and finally the XML conversion utility.
ps: does anybody know if anybody is making an iNES->XML converter? I'm not sure how difficult it is, you'd probably need to rely on BootGod's database (or something) to fill in some gaps...
Yes I will be releasing something once I get enough of this background work done.

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Re: XML format nes roms \ CaH4e3 on 24th April 2008, 09:39 wrote:
Preservation as in archival-quality dumps (hopefully including label, box, and manual scans plus cheat .ips patches and whatever else you want to stuff into the zip) that could be used to reconstruct the actual cartridges in 300 years when Captain Kirk decides he wants to play some Korean porno NES games.

If you are only interested in emulation as a means to play games, this format is not for you, please enjoy your ines sets and we won't bother you again ;-)
If Captain Kirk would play some Korean porno NES games, he should EMULATE it. Or should say thanx to people who bring him many "useful" info about cart label color, screw number, eprom chip package and stuff, but haven't bother about describing any specific mapper logic... Actually, who bother about this crap with emulation? ROMs should be perfect pieces of unknown binary data stored in neat sexy zip files burned on DVR+Rs and buried under old cardigans and baseball gloves...
If you want such "preservation", write down all info you know about game into plain txt file in perfect english and place in zip file along with binary without crappy iNES header.
The format is flexible enough to allow for things such as these to be added in the future.
Xml document is flexible enough itself to allow any thing to be added just now like diameter of wagon wheels in year 1856 on wild west. If we talk about some format to replace old crappy iNES format we should think about thing its havent to add them into new format, but not how to convert it in sweet xml documents.

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Re: XML format nes roms \ madcell on 29th April 2008, 10:37 wrote:

I strongly hope iNes 2.0 will come out soon.
I don't think remove header is a good idea.
We must tell all of the authors of popular nes emulator, emulator must have a built-in full nes database.it's hard to do that.
Nestopia is not the only choice,and people always have their favorite emulator.

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Re: XML format nes roms \ mikers on 29th April 2008, 20:41 wrote:

You don't understand... the XML format is meant to get rid of all the problems of iNES. Emulators don't need to recognize an incorrect "mapper number" as proclaimed by an iNES header, eliminating the need for a database from the emulator. All of the information necessary is stored in the XML itself.

iNES 2.0 not only is vaporware, but it was never intended to fix some fundamental issues in the original format anyway.

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Re: XML format nes roms \ tetsuo55 on 30th April 2008, 08:01 wrote:

Don't forget that no-one is forcing you to use XML (YET)

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Re: XML format nes roms \ FitzRoy on Today, 01:36 wrote:

I have not looked at the XML format, but I was one of the original people to come on the Nestopia forums and go apeshit on headers. I fucking hate headers, they are a complete abomination, complicating and confounding the pursuit of verifying and cataloging original data. I understand the inadequacy of original data for emulation purposes, but we datters and dumpers, most of us not skilled enough to write our own programs, simply need the rom data to be ISOLATED from any subjective format. It makes things so much easier to manage and it allows us to use simple tools using DATs without elaborate offsets and detection workarounds for every system dependent on headers. That has subsequent benefits for the community as a whole who naturally don't realize who is dumping the games they are playing, or how a good/bad dump can cause them patching grief or gaming grief. Everyone wins.

Having said that, I would like someone to explain to me in simple terms how XML is going to operate on NES roms now that it's apparently finalized. Ideally, I would expect a format that ONLY includes things that are necessary to the proper emulation of that rom not obtainable from the rom data itself: memory mapping, special controllers, etc. That means that the format has not been hijacked by overzealous "preservationists" to include things which are useless for emulation and better documented on websites: images, genres, license status, etc. It is totally unnecessary and I hope we see nothing of that sort in there.

Hopefully, it works like this: the PRG and CHR data is kept separate and a game or "cartridge" is represented by a zip container containing these three things:

blah.zip>
-------
blah.prg
blah.chr
blah.xml

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Re: XML format nes roms \ tetsuo55 on Today, 13:26 wrote:

The XML's can contain as much or as little as you wish, everything just plugs in.

The base of the XML though is simply the information needed for emulation

root
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Re: XML format nes roms

Post by root » 19 May 2008 12:28

Rif: 2092-2 Re: XML format nes roms \ tetsuo55 on 19th May 2008, 13:28 wrote:

The XML's can contain as much or as little as you wish, everything just plugs in.

The base of the XML though is simply the information needed for emulation.

Eventually though, the zip file can and should contain everything that belongs to the rom.

Artwork, cheats.dat, usefull patches, all kinds of preservationist info ,pcb diagram and more...

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Re: XML format nes roms \ FitzRoy on 19th May 2008, 16:42 wrote:

Great, so I'm guessing that the PRG and CHR roms ARE in fact separated? I am eager to begin constructing the new set. I have already removed the header data en masse using Ucon64. Now we need a program that can split a file into two at a user-defined point. We'll probably have to do it manually for each file unless someone with programming skills can think of an easier way. So... let's get started?

Step 1> find good cutting program
Step 2> divide workload, 5 letters to 5 people? I'll do ABCDE

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Re: XML format nes roms \ ElBarto on 19th May 2008, 19:19 wrote:
Great, so I'm guessing that the PRG and CHR roms ARE in fact separated? I am eager to begin constructing the new set. I have already removed the header data en masse using Ucon64. Now we need a program that can split a file into two at a user-defined point. We'll probably have to do it manually for each file unless someone with programming skills can think of an easier way. So... let's get started?

Step 1> find good cutting program
Step 2> divide workload, 5 letters to 5 people? I'll do ABCDE
dd on Unix/Linux, I guess that there are a windows port.

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