Commodore - Amiga

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kazumi213
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Re: Commodore - Amiga

Post by kazumi213 » 11 May 2009 11:34

Connie wrote: I don't think all A1000's were floppy Kickstart based and so research on what revisions were/weren't would have to be done.
Sure, I just mean that only data coming from system hardware components can be tagged as [BIOS], never if dumped from media for the system, 3rd party hardware, etc.

Regarding your list of Kickstart files, when considering DAT contents the CDTV and CD32 stuff just don't fit well. Sure both systems were able to handle floppies with proper peripheals because they were A500 and A1200 at heart. However including them would be no different than adding NDS BIOSes to GBA DAT because NDS is also able to run its contents.

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Connie
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Re: Commodore - Amiga

Post by Connie » 14 May 2009 10:20

I'm not finding anything definitive on later models of A1000's being upgraded with a 'Kickstart' boot ROM. I can only assume that all dumps and the naming relating to A1000 were done from the 256k WOS (write-once memory) or just happen to match the ROM versions used on the A500 & A2000 (TOSEC and WinUAE naming).

I've found that if you take the ADF floppy image versions of these A1000 'Kickstart' disks, trim from 0x00000200 to 0x000401FF to produce 262144 bytes (256k), the CRCs will match the 'ROM' dump versions. On this basis, I'm going to remove the A1000 KS versions and naming references used with A500 & A2000 - the only ROM dumps being the 'Bootstrap' ones.
when considering DAT contents the CDTV and CD32 stuff just don't fit well
I agree. My list of ROM dumps is purely to show what is 'available' so that deciding on what to add and how to name can be made easier.

My last concern is the inclusion of the ROM chip identifiers in the naming. These are used because in most/all cases of A1200, A3000 & A4000, the KS 'ROM' was actually on two ROM chips - one stored ODD bytes, the other EVEN bytes. Due to the way they were addressed, the data was in a strange byteswapped/interleaved arrangement. While you might not agree on using the chip code, you will need to include an identifier like [ODD], etc. This is because I consider a 256k [ODD], 256k [EVEN] ROM datting procedure more accurate than a 512k [MERGED] ROM datting procedure.

I'll try and put together a 'proposed' dir2dat at some point which you guys can then refine. :gba:

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Connie
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Re: Commodore - Amiga

Post by Connie » 22 May 2009 14:30

After a week of research, here is my proposed dat of Amiga verified ROM dumps to be added to Dat-o-Matic.

Rather than have single ROM sets, I have put the EVEN - ROM0/ODD - ROM1 dumps together in one set. All chip codes/identifiers have been left as part of the rom name where applicable. I'll leave it up to you guys how you implement them, but I think information like this should be 'perserved'. Here is the list:

[BIOS] A1000 Bootstrap (USA, Europe)
[BIOS] A1200 Kickstart (USA, Europe) (v3.0 Rev 39.106)
[BIOS] A1200 Kickstart (USA, Europe) (v3.1 Rev 40.068)
[BIOS] A3000 Kickstart (USA, Europe) (v1.4 Rev 36.016)
[BIOS] A3000 Kickstart (USA, Europe) (v2.04 Rev 37.175)
[BIOS] A3000 Kickstart (USA, Europe) (v3.1 Rev 40.068)
[BIOS] A4000 Kickstart (USA, Europe) (v3.0 Rev 39.106)
[BIOS] A4000 Kickstart (USA, Europe) (v3.1 Rev 40.068)
[BIOS] A4000 Kickstart (USA, Europe) (v3.1 Rev 40.070)
[BIOS] A4000T Kickstart (USA, Europe) (v3.1 Rev 40.070)
[BIOS] A500+,A2000 Kickstart (USA, Europe) (v2.04 Rev 37.175) (Developer)
[BIOS] A500+,A2000 Kickstart (USA, Europe) (v2.04 Rev 37.175)
[BIOS] A500,A2000 Kickstart (USA, Europe) (v1.2 Rev 33.180)
[BIOS] A500,A2000 Kickstart (USA, Europe) (v1.3 Rev 34.005)
[BIOS] A500,A600,A2000 Kickstart (USA, Europe) (v3.1 Rev 40.063)
[BIOS] A600 Kickstart (USA, Europe) (v2.05 Rev 37.299)
[BIOS] A600 Kickstart (USA, Europe) (v3.1 Rev 40.068) (Developer)
[BIOS] A600HD Kickstart (USA, Europe) (v2.05 Rev 37.300)
[BIOS] A600HD Kickstart (USA, Europe) (v2.05 Rev 37.350)

Dat is attached.
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kazumi213
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Re: Commodore - Amiga

Post by kazumi213 » 22 May 2009 23:47

Thank you Connie :)

I agree with your selection, but I have doubts regarding the inclusion of

[BIOS] A500+,A2000 Kickstart (USA, Europe) (v2.04 Rev 37.175) (Developer)
[BIOS] A600 Kickstart (USA, Europe) (v3.1 Rev 40.068) (Developer)

According to TOSEC naming they are, respectively:

Kickstart v2.04 r37.175 (1991)(Commodore)(pre-release)[for use with ReKick]
Kickstart v3.1 r40.68 (1993)(Commodore)(beta)[for use with ReKick]

so maybe we could neglect them. We already include "better" alternatives.

Also, I think that general naming should be revised :?

Finally, I've been able to generate

[BIOS] A1000 Bootstrap (USA, Europe)

from my 64 kbytes dump by trimming to 8 kbytes, then splitting into two 4 kbytes files containing bytes at even and odd offsets, respectively. Please confirm that required trimming is correct. I know it's just FF bytes, but unless ROM chips were actually 4 kbytes each, trimming could not be correct (the 64 kbytes dump is marked as good by TOSEC).

However I cannot generate all other 2x256 kbytes sets from my 512 kbytes dumps (I think I'm using the correct ones), and I'm applying the same splitting as before. Is there any special conversion for those in addition to the EO-splitting?

EDIT: Just in case, I'm using this tiny but working tool for EO-splitting (attached). It runs from a command prompt box. Just type "split2.exe" and follow on screen instructions.
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Connie
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Re: Commodore - Amiga

Post by Connie » 23 May 2009 13:25

All dumps have been verified:

http://kickstartrevival.dynalias.com/kickstart.html

Besides, I don't consider adding the 'Developer' ones to be any different to adding a Beta or Proto in any any of the other dats.

Regarding the bootstrap, I asked Toni Wilen. Because it's a Mask ROM, there isn't really a definitive way of knowing whether or not it's a pair of 32k chips or 4k because of the way the data is accessed/addressed. My decision to add the 4k dumps was made on the basis that a 8k dump was verified according to the site above and the fact that M.E.S.S. uses the 4k versions. Also, Toni hasn't added support to WinUAE for the 'padded' 32k versions. I didn't want to add 'padded' dumps because this is effectively a 'hacked' ROM dump - 32k dumps don't exist and thus can't be verified as good even though we can test and replicate them.

In M.E.S.S. as:
a1000n
|---252179-01.u5n
+
|---252180-01.u5p

Kickstart ROMs arn't 'read' the same as ordinary ROM BIOS dumps (bootstrap, SCSI, extended ROM, etc) and so can't just be 'split'. The ODD/EVEN bytes are in a strange byteswapped/interleaved format. This is how I discovered how to create them - presumably there are tools to do this in one step, but I got tired of searching:

Split the 'full' image into four parts (SPLIT4) so that
file1 gets 0x00, 0x04, etc
file2 gets 0x01, 0x05, etc
file3 gets 0x02, 0x06, etc
file4 gets 0x03, 0x07, etc

Mix file1 and file2 to give EVEN (MIX2)

Mix file3 and file4 to give ODD (MIX2)

Byteswap these files to get the correct dumps.

...and yes, I did spend a few hours trying to figure out how to do this :sdrop: - my only source being the existing TOSEC dumps:
Amiga 3000 Boot-ROM v1.4 r36.16 (1990)(Commodore)(A3000)[!][ROM0]
Amiga 3000 Boot-ROM v1.4 r36.16 (1990)(Commodore)(A3000)[!][ROM1]

with which to understand the layout of the data.

These verified split ROM dumps are indeed rarer than rocking horse shit. :lol:

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Connie
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Re: Commodore - Amiga

Post by Connie » 23 May 2009 14:29

For the curious, avid, "Gotta catch 'em all" collectors among you, if you get the source code for WinUAE and look in the c file 'memory', search for 'romdata roms[]', you will find all dumps currently supported.

The format is:
ROM name, version, revision, size, registry number entry
followed by a list of hex values - the first one being the CRC of the dump

If alternate/split dumps exist, they will follow the above line in this format:
ALTROMPN, registry number entry, size, type, part no, first hex value is CRC of rom dump

From this list, you can see that WinUAE 'supports' a lot of dumps.

When you have performed a 'Scan' within WinUAE, you can verify what dumps have been recognised as 'good' by entering the registry. Don't do this unless you are confident with working in the Windows registry file.

Run 'regedit' and navigate to HKEY_CURRENT_USER > Software > Arabuusimiehet > WinUAE > DetectedROMs

Here you will see the numbered registry entries that I mentioned are listed in the source file along with the WINUAE description and your path\ROM name.

I hope this helps you collectors! ;)

edit:
I forgot to add that if you have Cloanto's Amiga Forever, you can add the encrypted ROM dumps along with the 'rom.key' file to WinUAEs rom folder because these are obviously recognised too.

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kazumi213
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Re: Commodore - Amiga

Post by kazumi213 » 23 May 2009 19:51

Could you post your tool(s) or method to interleave 2 bin files and byteswap them? I can't find any :( I guess that byteswapping may be unnecesary if you interleave the files in the correct order.

I plan to use the tool I've posted before to split the 512 kbytes into

0246
1357

Then split again both files into

04 (file 1)
26 (file 2)

15 (file 3)
37 (file 4)

Now by interleaving file 3 with file 1, and file 4 with file 2

1054 (already byteswapped)
3276 (already byteswapped)

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Connie
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Re: Commodore - Amiga

Post by Connie » 23 May 2009 22:16

Having spent so much time looking for tools and trying to understand how to 'de-interleave' the files, once I'd found a method of creating the files, I just stuck with it. Making a simple batch file to automate the splitting and merging made it relatively quick. If you figure out the exact method, or with better tools, then please let me know. Byteswapping was done manually in Hex Workshop v6.

It seems that INTERL is the only tool really relavent to working with the pairs of KS dumps - I just don't know how to reverse engineer it to creating a pair from a merged dump. The MIX/SPLIT tools only seem to work correctly with 'BIOS' ROM dumps, not KS ones.

Read around the EAB (English Amiga Board) forums for more information.

Find the tools attached below which I found from these forums.
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Connie
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Re: Commodore - Amiga

Post by Connie » 24 May 2009 00:36

Code: Select all

Full(0 m 1) - 11114EF900FF8E7E0000FFFF0024001000240054FFFFFFFF657865632033362E3834
Yields:

Code: Select all

Even (ROM0) - 1111FF00000024002400FFFF78653320
 Odd (ROM1) - F94E7E8EFFFF10005400FFFF63652E36
Clearly there is a 2 byte interleave offset and then these two bytes in their 'ODD' 'EVEN' dump formats are then byteswapped.

Edited for a correct 32 to 2x16 byte example.

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kazumi213
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Re: Commodore - Amiga

Post by kazumi213 » 24 May 2009 15:58

Thanks a lot for the tools Connie and all the time you are putting into this.

I managed to apply required conversion to the 512 kbytes dumps. As you said interleving must be performed using "MIX2.EXE", since byte interleaving is required. "interl.exe" performs word interleaving (picks 2 bytes at a time from each input file).

Anyway, I attach a "conversion pack" (NO ROMs at all) to minimize troubles for those who are interested. See included readme.
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rygar997
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Re: Commodore - Amiga

Post by rygar997 » 27 Feb 2010 16:53

Some new IPFs :pirate:

Arnhem-TheMarketGardenOperation_2925.zip
Face-OffIceHockey_2923.zip

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Re: Commodore - Amiga

Post by rygar997 » 27 Feb 2010 19:14

New IPFs not in no-intro DAT. :pirate:
Connie are you going to do something with it? :whistling:

Arnhem-TheMarketGardenOperation_2925.zip
BanditKingsOfAncientChina_2794.zip
BardsTaleConstructionSet,The_2919.zip
BarGames_2947.zip
BlitzTennis_2765.zip
BugBash_2953.zip
BumpnBurn_2920.zip
Challenger_2704.zip
Clown-O-Mania_2807.zip
CohortII-FightingforRome_2941.zip
Dungeons,Amethysts,AlchemistsnEverythin_2963.zip
EuropeanSoccerChallenge_2906.zip
EuroSoccer_2905.zip
Face-OffIceHockey_2923.zip
GBAChampionshipBasketball-Two-on-Two_2948.zip
GoldRush!_2909.zip
GreatGianaSisters,The_2945.zip
HeavyMetal_2977.zip
Hoversprint_2109.zip
Invest_2835.zip
Invest_2836.zip
JoanofArc_2793.zip
JohnLowesUltimateDarts_2778.zip
LegendoftheLost_2971.zip
Nucleus_2954.zip
OffShoreWarrior_2968.zip
Paladin_2982.zip
Phantasm_2922.zip
Phantasm_2972.zip
R-CAerochopper_944.zip
ReturnOfMedusa,The_2828.zip
Snoopy-TheCoolComputerGame_2929.zip
StarBreaker_2988.zip
StarWars_2926.zip
SummerGamesII_2896.zip
SummerGames_2895.zip
SuperHueyUH-1X_2949.zip
Suspect_2868.zip
TeenageMutantNinjaTurtles_2994.zip
ThaiBoxing_2850.zip
ThaiBoxing_2851.zip
ThunderCats_2921.zip
TimesOfLore_2777.zip
TrainedAssassin_2792.zip
Transworld_2837.zip
UltimaIII-Exodus_2800.zip
WarriorsofReleyne_2924.zip
Whirligig_2913.zip
Xenomorph_2939.zip

relax
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Re: Commodore - Amiga

Post by relax » 27 Feb 2010 19:44

Most of them have already been posted here viewtopic.php?p=6530#p6530. Thanks for the new ones.

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kazumi213
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Re: Commodore - Amiga

Post by kazumi213 » 28 Feb 2010 02:05

Thank you very much rygar997 :)

The following games in you list are already included in No-Intro DAT:

BanditKingsOfAncientChina_2794.zip
R-CAerochopper_944.zip
ReturnOfMedusa,The_2828.zip
Suspect_2868.zip
TimesOfLore_2777.zip
TrainedAssassin_2792.zip
UltimaIII-Exodus_2800.zip

Please check the thread on previous post by relax for a DAT containing all missing SPS releases. I've updated it after your contribution.

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Connie
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Re: Commodore - Amiga

Post by Connie » 28 Feb 2010 23:00

I've no time (nor motivation) to do much these days so I think it's best that I refrain from being Amiga dat maintainer.

While I'm not telling you all the following for sympathy, I did think it necessary to mention it because some of you may have visited his website years ago when I used to run EmuConnie.co.uk and learnt about his rare skin disease called Dystrophic Epidermolysis Bullosa.

Anyway, my son Ryan Lewis sadly passed away age 13 on 04 October 2009

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